Terry Wildman Shares the Good Story of Creator Through the First Nations Version

Years ago, Terry Wildman had encountered a version of the New Testament in Hopi, but he could not find anyone who could read it. For so many Natives, understanding their own languages is a skill that has been lost due to the effects of colonization, yet reading the Bible in modern-day translations still leaves something to be desired. That experience planted a seed in Terry that eventually became The First Nations Version of the New Testament that reflects the oral storytelling of Native cultures. In this conversation with Every Voice Now co-host Maila Kim and guest co-host Al Hsu (who served as the editor of The First Nations Version), you'll learn about the incredible collaboration between representatives from multiple Native tribes and better understand why certain words resonate more strongly for Native readers (or can even potentially cause trauma and need to be avoided). If you have a love for the God ("Creator") and Scripture (or "the Good Story"), and you want to see how Creator worked through Terry to bring this version to life, then you won't want to miss this episode.

About the Guest:
Terry Wildman (Ojibwe and Yaqui) is the lead translator, general editor, and project manager of the First Nations Version. He serves as the director of spiritual growth and leadership development for Native InterVarsity. He is also the founder of Rain Ministries and has previously served as a pastor and worship leader. He and his wife, Darlene, live in Arizona. You can find Terry on Twitter @TerryMWildman.

SPECIAL OFFER | Save 40% on The First Nations Version and get free US shipping when you use promo code EVN40 at checkout.

Additional Links Mentioned:

• First Nations Version Website
• First Nations Version Facebook Page
• First Nations Version Instagram Page

About the Hosts:
Maila Kim is a marketing manager at IVP; she holds a B.A. in English Language & Literature and a B.A. in Communication Studies from the University of Michigan, and an M.A. in Christian Formation & Ministry with a concentration in Bible & Theology from Wheaton College Graduate School. Follow Maila on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. 

Al Hsu is senior editor for IVP Books at InterVarsity Press, where he acquires and develops books in such areas as culture, discipleship, church, ministry, and mission. He earned his PhD in educational studies from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Deerfield, Illinois. Al is the author of Singles at the Crossroads, Grieving a Suicide, and The Suburban Christian. He has been a writer and columnist for Christianity Today and served as senior warden on the vestry of Church of the Savior in Wheaton, Illinois. 

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Transcript

Maila Kim: 0:01

Welcome to The Every Voice Now Podcast, where we bring voices of color into the spotlight. I'm Maila Kim.

Ed Gilbreath: 0:07

And I'm Ed Gilbreath. In every episode, you'll hear from authors of color about the making of their books, as well as the challenges they had to overcome along the way.

Maila Kim: 0:25

Welcome, Al Hsu, to The Every Voice Now Podcast today. How are you, Al?

Al Hsu: 0:30

I'm good, Maila! Thanks for having me here. Yes, I was honored to serve as the editor for this

Maila Kim: 0:32

Yeah, our regular listeners will probably know that you are a new addition to hosting today. So thank you for being here for our conversation with Terry Wildman, the lead translator for the First Nations Version of the Bible. unique volume of the Bible and to work closely with Terry on it. So I'm looking forward to this conversation today. Al, can you give our guests a quick summary of what the First Nations Version is, and for our listeners who might not quite know what we are discussing today? Well, I love that translation. And I'm excited for

Al Hsu: 1:02

The First Nations Version is an indigenous translation of the New Testament in English by Native North Americans for Native North Americans and all English-speaking peoples. And to give people a flavor of it, here is a passage from 1 Corinthians 13: "Love is patient and kind. Love is never jealous. It does not brag or boast. It is not puffed up or big-headed. Love does not act in shameful ways, nor does it care only about itself. It is not hotheaded, or does it keep track of wrongs one to it. Love is not happy ith lies and injustice, but ruth makes its heart glad. Love eeps walking even when carrying heavy load. Love keeps rusting, never loses hope, and stands firm in hard times. The oad of love has no end." this podcast because I loved hearing Terry explain the backstory of this version, and even hearing him read some of the translation on this podcast. So let's not delay this any further. Let's jump right into this interview with Terry Wildman. We're excited to welcome Terry Wildman to The Every Voice Now Podcast today. And we also have Al Hsu, IVP senior editor who worked on the project with Terry, is also here with us today. So welcome to you both. Hello!

Terry Wildman: 2:30

Hey, thank you. It's good to be here.

Maila Kim: 2:32

Terry, why don't you start off by telling us your personal backstory. So how do you respond when people ask who you are and what you do?

Terry Wildman: 2:41

All right, well, first of all, I'd like to say that my wife and I both live in Maricopa, Arizona, right now on the traditional lands of the Pima and the Tohono O'odham. And so I just want to give that land acknowledgement. I grew up as just a regular guy in Michigan, but I didn't grow up in my Native heritage, like a lot of our Native people. We weren't able to be raised connected to our culture. So as I grew up, I knew I had Native heritage. I knew we had ancestry because my grandpa would talk about it, and my grandma would talk about it. So I had Yaqui on my grandma's side. And then I had Ojibwe, or Anishinabe, on my grandpa's side. And so I was always interested in that part of my life, but I never explored it. So I grew up outside of my Native culture, but as an adult, after I came to faith in Jesus, I then felt called to reconnect to that Native ancestry and to actuallyI felt called to reach our Native people with a message of Jesus.

Al Hsu: 3:49

And that ethnic journey and ministry journey led you eventually to translate the First Nations Version. Can you tell us the origin story of that? How did that come about?

Terry Wildman: 4:00

As I began to learn about my Native heritage and visit places where Native people were, as Creator called me out into the Arizona-New Mexico area, I connected with a ministry up on the Apache Reservation. And I was so surprised that there seemed to be very little of the culture in the Native churches on the reservation. It was like the only thing Native about them seemed to be that some of them spoke their language. Then we got an invitation to pastor an American Baptist church, on the Hopi Indian Reservation, at a mission that was over 100 years old. It had been founded about 100 years earlier. And so here I found myself living more closely among a very traditional people, and I felt I had a lot to learn. But one thing I learned as the pastor was that we had a storage room in the fellowship hall. And in the storage room, I opened some boxI got curious, I just got snoopy, you know? What's in here? Because we were reading the NIV Bibles in our churches. And, you know, we used to joke about it: NIV, "New Indian Version." Because so many of the Native churches were using the NIV Bible. But what happened was, I found a box of New Testaments translated into the Hopi language. And I was so excited. I thought, "Oh, man, I wonder how this translation works. I'll get somebody to read it for me." And that was an awakening right there. Because I discovered that no one could read it. No one in our church could read it. No one in other churches could readI couldn't find anyone. And I discovered later the reason was because in the boarding schools, they never taught usthey taught us English. They didn't teach us how to read these translated Bibles. And later, we found out that all across Turtle Island, which we call North America, this was true. Most of our Native people cannotdon't speak their language, let alone read their language. I talked to a traditionalor, a friend who's a Native Navajo. And he told me that probably 1-2%, maybe 1%, could actually read the Bible in Navajo. And so that was kind of the beginning of, wow, you know, this is eye-opening. And so the seeds of an idea that we needed a translation in English began to germinateyou know, be planted, I should say. They weren't germinating yet, but it was planted.

Maila Kim: 7:02

That's a beautiful beginning. I'm sure we're going to continue to kind of flesh that out throughout this podcast. But I love that story. Thank you, Terry, for even sharing that part with us. This is the first time Every Voice Now is featuring a Bible version on our podcast. And that's because IVP does not often publish Bibles. And so can you give us a little insight of what it was like for you to work with a translation council to produce this version? What was that process like for you?

Terry Wildman: 7:34

So what happened was the CEO, Wayne Johnson, of this Bible translation, contacted us, and we agreed to work togetherwe did a partnership between this Canadian organization, which is a member of the Wycliffe Global Alliance of translators. And so they were the ones that really suggested that we put together a council. So we decided on

twelve: 7:59

twelve Native people, and because Darlene and I had been traveling for years and years on the road, making relationships all across this Turtle Island, North America, I knew a lot of people. For me, when we got the council involved, you know, I had to submit all my work to the council, you know? And we had to work together and figure out how we were going to word things. And because of the fact that there's so many different tribes and so many different tribal cultures, you know, we had to figure out some commonalities between all of our tribal people, and use some of the more common ways of speaking more traditionally, like the elders might speak, or English is their second language, and they're speaking in English. So we went through over 100, maybe almost 200, key terms, and we decided together, here's how we're going to say those in English. Here's how we're going to translate "kingdom." Here's how we're going to translate "sin." Here's how we're going to translate "priest," here's how we'restill in English, but here's the word choices we're going to use that relate to our Native people. And so

Maila Kim: 9:19

Can you give an example of that?

Terry Wildman: 9:22

Absolutely. You know, one of the things that's happened because of the boarding school experiences and the church involvement in those boarding schoolsthere are some words that trigger a defensiveness for Native people. And those words have to do with, for example, "church." So we said, okay, we don't want to use the word "church." And besides, does anybody know what the word "church" means? Where did that word come from anyway, even in English? Does anybody know "c-h-u-r-c-h"it only has meaning because we grew up as believers knowing, you know, that it wasn't the building, it's actually a gathering of people, it'speople don't know that [regularly], and the word "church" has sort of a colonial baggage attached to that. And so we used, instead, we decided on a relational term for this ecclesia, this gatheringwe're the called-out ones, we're being called out of the world into a family. So we call the church the "sacred family," Creator' sacred family. And in the bac of the translation, e have a glossary of why we tra slated a lot of these very imp rtant words.

Maila Kim: 10:46

So the reality of Christian publishing, and publishing more broadly, is that Native voices are still so underrepresented. And so can you give us your thoughts on maybe how the writing and publishing journey might be different for Native authors? And also, what factors do publishing houses need to understand when they're working with Native authors?

Terry Wildman: 11:11

You know, that's an amazing question. And I don't even know if I have the answer for you for that. I do know that a lot of Native people have a lot to share. And that our sharing has been undervalued within the body of Christ. And our culture has been undervalued. And so I think what it will take to work with Native people, and Native authors, is a humility. It requires the dominant culture to say, "We don't know who you are; we are depending on you to tell us who you are. And we're not going to tell you how to do that. We're going to let you do it in the way that's most meaningful to you." And that's one thing I appreciated when InterVarsity Press began to, decided to publish thisthey assured me that they would not be trying to reword it for us, they would let us do the wording. They would only look at, you know, maybe some sentence structure, any errors. And if they found anything, they would basically just ask questions, and let us make the decision. And that's exactly what happened.

Maila Kim: 12:31

Well, thank you, Terry, we're going to need to take a quick break. But when we return, Terry will actually do a reading for us, and then we're going to talk more about his translation process. So stay tuned. And thanks for listening to The Every Voice Now Podcast.

Helen Lee: 12:46

Hi, everyone, Helen Lee here, producer of The Every Voice Now Podcast. And I just wanted to stop in to let you know about the All Things Enneagram virtual event on October 23. For just $10 you'll get access to a full day packed with spiritual practices for your Enneagram type. You'll also hear live panels with the authors of the Enneagram Daily Reflection series, a Q&A time with our enneagram guru Suzanne Stabile, and a variety of workshops that discuss how the Enneagram intersects with different areas of your life, such as culture, ministry, marriage and family, mental health, and more. You can visit ivpress.com/allthingsenneagram for more information or to register, but registration closes on October 15. So don't wait. Register today. And we hope to see you there.

Al Hsu: 13:40

Welcome back to The Every Voice Now Podcast. I'm Al Hsu. It's time for our Behind the Words segment, where Terry will be reading a passage from the First Nations Version, and then we'll find out more about what went on behind the scenes of it. Terry, what are you reading for us today? And why did you select it?

Terry Wildman: 13:54

I'll be reading from Ephesians chapter one, verses 9-22. And the reason I selected Ephesians was, Ephesians was reallyhas always been one of my favorite books in the New Testament. And in the beginning, I wondered, is this Native way of speaking and storytelling going to fit into a letter that Paul wrote? And I was surprised, in one way, h w well it translated over to a letter. And it was the fir t letter that I worked hardest n translating. And it's probab y had more TLC than any other bo k. "It makes Creator's heart glad t show us the hidden wisdom of hi plan for all of creation, no made clear through the Chose One. This is how Creator bring all things to completion. H makes all things in th spirit-world above and on th earth below come together an find their full meaning an original purpose in the Chose One. The Chosen One has share with us all that he has bee given. This was Creator's pla that he decided long ago t accomplish. A wise and powerfu vision he saw within himself Creator is working out all th details, fitting everything int his purpose, so that we, who ar from the tribes of Wrestles wit Creator (Israel), who have firs put our hope in the Chosen One will bring praise and honor t him. And now, not only we bu all other Nations who have hear the truth of this message ca participate in his plan. This i the good story that sets al people free. When we trusted i the Chosen One, he marked us a his own by giving us hi promised Holy Spirit. He di this to make sure that we, th people he paid a great pric for, will receive all that h has planned for us. This bring great praise and honor to him

Maila Kim: 16:09

Amen. And I think it's an added layer having you Ever since I heard of the trus you have in Creator Sets Fre (Jesus), and your deep love fo all of his holy people, I hav never stopped giving thanks fo you, remembering you when I sen my voice to the Great Spirit. pray that the Father of hono and beauty, who is the Grea Spirit of our Honored Chie Creator Sets Free (Jesus), wil gift you with a spirit of wisdo to know him deeply an understand his mysterious ways I am asking him to shine hi light into your hearts so yo can clearly see the hope he ha chosen us for and the beautifu treasure he has in us, his hol people. I pray he will show ho much greater his power is fo all who put their trust in him This is the same power he use when he brought the Chosen On back to life from the dead an gave him the seat of honor a his right hand. This is a hig spiritual place greater than al rulers, authorities, and powers It is a place higher an stronger than all names that ca be named, not only in this worl but also in the one that i coming. This is how he brough all things, seen and unseen under his loving power and mad him the elder of his sacre family. This sacred family i his body on earth, made whole b the one who gives everything an everyone their full meaning an purpose orally read that to us as well, and just even listening to you share it. Terry, would you take us deeper into the experience of translating this portion of the Scripture? How long did you spend meditating and understanding Ephesians 1? And how long did this translation take?

Terry Wildman: 18:19

Well, you know, it's hard to put, the number of hours I spent on this. I didn't track that time. Part of this was translated while I was on the road traveling, doing ministryin our off time, I would sit in a coffee house on the computer. And I would I would bring up several translations of the New Testament. Especially, I would bring up a Greek reverse interlinear, so I could see the actual Greek words and things like that, and some study

guides: 18:48

I have Logos Bible Software. And so I would read some of the ideas that the theologians talk about in the different things. And then from there, I just began to write. And what I wrote at first wasn't how it sounded when I got done eventually because I would keep honing it, and sharpening it, so to speak, and changing words here and there, changing sentence structure. Because I wanted it to sound more like a storyteller would tell it. And I was looking more and moresometimes I would have to get on the phone and call a friend, a Native friend, and say, "Hey, I'm working on this part of Ephesians. And I wonder, do you have any ideas about the best way to say it?"and I would talk that over with them, and from that conversation I would work on it. You know, we chose different words, "Chosen One" for Christ. "Creator Sets Free" for Jesus. That's the meaning of his name, with a little bit of a Native feel to it. We show Jesus as been the elder of the sacred family, the headthe Greek word is for "head," but for Native people, the head of a family is the elder of the family. And so, to honor the elder of the sacred family, we understand that Jesus would be that one who took that honored place as elder. So those are some of the ideas behind that Scripture, and the challenges to, oh, one of the [places] was the word "throne" in verse, I think it's verse 21oh, no, verse 19. It says, "This is the same power he used when he brought the Chosen One back to life from the dead and gave him the seat of honor at his right hand." That's the throne, set him on the throne, or at his right hand. Those are some of the things.

Maila Kim: 20:53

Well, thank you for sharing that with us. As you likely know now, the sales for the First Nations Version has been quite strong.

Terry Wildman: 21:03

I've heard rumors.

Maila Kim: 21:03

And soyou've heard a little bit, right? I would love to know, were you expecting this kind of response? And also, what do you think that means that this version was so well received in the church right now?

Terry Wildman: 21:16

I'm amazed. I really felt along the wayin one way, I'm not surprised that people like it. But I am surprised at how many people like it! You know, I hoped that it would sell well, especially to get it in the hands of our Native people, you know? But we also, it's not onlyfrom the beginning, non-Native people have all, have loved this translation. It's beenwe've gotten feedback all along the way. And so we began to see that this was not only a gift from us, from our small group of translators, Native translators, to the Native, our native people. But it was also a gift from us, from our Native people, this group, to the majority culture, and it's turned out to be that very thing. Many people, as I look at some of the reviews on it, they talk about what a gift this is, how it's opened the Scriptures up in new ways and fresh ways, and "I'm reading the whole New Testament again, I can't believe it," people will say. "I can't put it down, I read till two o'clock in the morning." So in some ways, yeah, I'm amazed at how well it's done. But I didn't expect, you know, to see it on bestseller lists and things like that. It was, it just surprised me, but blesses me hugely.

Al Hsu: 22:51

Terry, this episode of the podcast is releasing on what is now increasingly known as Indigenous Peoples' Day. How have you responded to questions or criticism thatdoes this FNV version speak for all Native peoples? Or, what are you trying to do here?

Terry Wildman: 23:11

One of the things that we wanted to make clear, and we want to make clear, is that we're not saying we represent all Native people in this translation. And sometimes the way that other articles have been written, it makes it sound like that's what we're doing. "By us and for us," you knowbut really, it's by a group of Native people who are followers of Jesus, Creator Sets Free, that believe that this was something that would be valuable to do, and important to do. And so we don't pretend to represent all of our Native people, but we do know that it was Native people who did this, and believers in Jesus who did this. And we did this with a conviction that this was something that was going to be important. We have Native people that don't like it for different reasons. Some don't like it because they're already satisfied with the translations they have. They've grown up with maybe King James or NIV, or whatever it was, and they don't want anything different. They're happy with it. But there's a lot of Native people out there who didn't grow up with those things. And this is opening and giving a new perspective, and a new way of hearing this good story. And we've actually had testimony in many places with Native InterVarsity, with Cru, and with others that people are coming to faith just from reading this. And so, if that's all it does, that's great. And again, when people tell us, you know, "You're not representing me in this one," I say, "You're right, we aren't." That's okay. But we are representing some Native people in this.

Maila Kim: 25:05

Well, we need to take a quick break, but when we return we'll continue our conversation with Terry, and we'll find out more about his personal writing habits and quirks. You'll also find out how to get a special discount on the First Nations Version. So stay tuned, and thanks for listening to The Every Voice Now Podcast.

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Maila Kim: 26:30

You're listening to The Every Voice Now Podcast. I'm Maila Kim. And today we've been talking with Terry Wildman, the lead translator for the First Nations Version, which has been recently released. Keep listening to find out how you can get a special 40% off discount on this book at ivpress.com. But before we get to that, let's first find out a little bit more about Terry's writing habits and quirks. And so, in writing on this project, Terry, did you ever experience writer's block, or a time where you just didn't want to write anymore? What did you do to push through?

Terry Wildman: 27:05

Yes, there were times I got, just, discouraged. Sometimes I felt very alone working on this. I did much of this translationat least, a little over half of itwhile I was pastoring a church. And so I had to fit this time in between pastoring. And so I would have these, you know, pressures on me of pastoring. I was supposed to be half-time. But you know how that goeshow do you pastor half-time? You only get half-time pay, is what happens. But I did find time, and I would share it sometimes with our church. When I would feel a block, or discouraged, or just like, I don't know how I'm going to do all of this, I would take a break. I would go outside. I would breathe some fresh air, I'd take a walk. Sometimes I'd go watch a movie, get my mind off it. And I would try to watch an encouraging movie, you know, that had some good feelings in it. And maybe sometimes I would watch something of people who face challenges and how they got through them. So there were so many different ways that Creator kept inspiring me to do this. And a lot of times, by taking a break of a day or two and then coming back to it, I would come back fresh and ready to do something. Sometimes what helped was to read back over what I had already written. And then that would kind of inspire me to keep going, you know, get the creative juices flowing, so to speak.

Maila Kim: 28:54

Terry, how is translating the Bible different from any other writings you may have done?

Terry Wildman: 28:59

Translating the Bible, to me, is a sacred task. I can't approach it like any other writing. I've written another book that wasn't a translation of the Bible. And I felt when I had, when I could write myself, I had a lot more freedom to use wording on my own imagination. But with the Scriptures, there [were] two things that you kind of have to navigate when you're translating Scripture. First of all, you have to hold the highest regard for Scripturethe highest regardbut at the same time, you have to hold a high regard for culture. And you have to find how to balance those two things. Because if you only consider the literal words from the Greek and not culture, then you're probably not going to communicate within another culture the way you should. Or, if you focus too much on culture, then you can lose the meaning of the Scripture. And you can lose the message in there. So you navigate that road with those two things on your

banks: 30:17

sacred text and culture. And so that's why it's very different; you have to work within boundary lines that have been set by the Creator already, and those who were inspired to write this sacred text.

Al Hsu: 30:36

I want to give our listeners a flavor of that balance between the sacred text and culture. So this is from Matthew 6, this is the Lord's Prayer in the FNV: "O Great Spirit, our Father from above, we honor your name as sacred and holy. Bring your good road to us, where the beauty of your ways in the spirit-world above is reflected in the earth below. Provide for us day by daythe elk, the buffalo, and the salmon. The corn, the squash, and the wild rice. All the things we need for each day. Release us from the things we have done wrong, in the same way we release others for the things done wrong to us." Terry, give us a little bit of your thinking as you're translating "daily bread," obviously not literally salmon and buffalo and elk. But talk [to] us about how you made those choices.

Terry Wildman: 31:27

Well, one of the things is that, I think a good translation has to be what translators are calling a dynamic equivalent, more of a thought-for-thought translation than strictly a word-for-word translation. Native American stories were traditionally told in ways that are unique to the storyteller and meaningful to the listeners, drawing from history, tradition, and experience. A storyteller will ensure that the essence of the story is preserved, without the need to present a strict, word-for-word recital. So that's how we approached the text. And in the "daily bread"so we had to say, for Jewish people in Jesus' day, what did bread represent? And then we had to say, for Native people in many of our different cultures, what did breadwhat was our bread, our daily staple? What were the things that, [or] what was the food, so to speak, that represented ourmore than just being food, but [that] represented in some way who we are as a people? And so we chose several different, six different cultural and geographical types of food: the elk, the buffalo, the salmonyou've got three different tribes there. The corn, the squash, and the wild ricewild rice is Anishinabe, Ojibwe. And the corn and the squash are the eastern tribes. So we have the western, we have the western tribes, we have the eastern tribes. And so we included all that in there so there would be a connection there.

Al Hsu: 33:19

And now that you've finished the New Testament,

everybody wants to know: 33:22

What can you share with us about plans for the Old Testament?

Terry Wildman: 33:28

Every interview I've had asks me that question. I'm praying about it. It really is a challenge. I think the Old Testament might be three times the length of the New Testament. Perhaps, if I could dedicate more time to it. But the challenges that we're looking at are huge, but a lot of it has to do with time, and involvement of a lot of Native people. I would want to pull in more Native people and get more reviewers and helpers involved in this translation, giving the feedback and such. So all I can say is we're praying about it. If we do this, we're going to need some special funding. So, we kind of joke around at Native InterVarsitythey say, okay, why don't you fundraise by the book? Genesis'll cost this much, or this much, and Ezekiel costs this much, andI mean, we kind of joke around about it that way, but the bottom line, you know, I heard someone say, the gospel, the good story, is free,

right? Like water: 34:40

water's free. But the plumbing costs a lot of money. And sometimes getting the gospel out there costs some money. So pray for us. Pray that I'll hear the voice of Creator if he wants us to do this, this Old Testament.

Maila Kim: 35:00

Well, Terry, we've come to the end of our time together. But before we go, we want to give you a few moments to just even share with our listeners any other special projects you have going on, or even just how people can reach you.

Terry Wildman: 35:13

Oh, sure, you can always reach me by just an email

address: 35:18

terry@firstnationsversion.com is my email address. You can go to our website, firstnationsversion.com. Well, I want to thank InterVarsity for helping us with our website, [getting] extra funding to create a new website that incorporates a better way to connect with people. But also, people can just go there, get a hold of us, and I always respondwell, we have a Facebook page, First Nations Version Project on Facebook. You can always private-message us there. We'll respond to it. And you can keepwe also have Instagram, First Nations Version on Instagram. So there's many ways to connect with usTwitter. And so, we welcome input, we welcome feedback, we want toif we ever have to do a second version, if we keep track of all the feedback of where we might have made a mistake or might be able to say it better, we'll listen to that and keep track of that.

Maila Kim: 36:22

We will link all of that in the show notes just so people know exactly where they can reach you. But Terry, it was so good to have you on the show today. And also Al, so fun to finally cohost with you! I'm sure we'll have you back on the podcast soon, whether or not you'd like to. But now I want to share with you all how you can find the First Nations Version at ivpress.com. If you use the code EVN40, you can get 40% off and free US shipping. So visit our site to get a great deal on this wonderful new version of God's Word.

Ed Gilbreath: 37:00

Thanks, everyone, for listening to The Every Voice Now Podcast, brought to you by IVP. Our producer is Helen Lee, and our sound engineer is Jonathan Clauson. If you are enjoying our show, please share about it with your friends. We'd be grateful for your reviews and recommendations on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

Maila Kim: 37:19

And we'd love to hear from you directly anytime. You can find us on Instagram and Twitter @EveryVoiceNow. Or you can email us with your comments, questions, or suggestions at evn@ivpress.com. And join us next time for another inspiring episode of Every Voice Now.